Horse Fitness and Conditioning | Jon Holling (Five Star 3-Day Event Rider)

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Show Notes

Jon Holling is an accomplished 3-day event rider based in Ocala, FL, where he operates Holling Eventing at Willow Run Farm with his wife Jennifer. He initially rode casually in 4-H but transitioned to eventing at the age of 14 under the guidance of Anne Jennings. After completing high school, Jon moved to Toronto to train with Peter Gray, who was coaching the Canadian Olympic team at the time. Jon has participated in prestigious international events including Burghley Horse Trials, the Land Rover Kentucky Three-Day Event, and the World Cup Eventing Finals in Malmö, Sweden. In 2012, he emerged victorious at the Volvo Bromont CCI*** and represented the United States as a member of the Nations Cup Team at Boekelo in the Netherlands. Additionally, Jon serves on the U.S. Equestrian Federation Eventing Sport Committee and chairs the Cross-Country Safety Task Force for the U.S. Eventing Association, actively advocating for frangible fence technology and securing funding for its implementation.

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Questions Jon Answers in this Conversation

1. (00:00) Introduction
2. (03:03) Recent trip to Ireland
3. (07:11) How can I maintain my older Beginner Novice horse's fitness while preserving his joints?
4. (11:33) How do you determine the appropriate duration for a trot set?
5. (14:31) What should a horse's frame look like when schooling a trot set?
6. (17:40) When should canter or gallop work be introduced for conditioning at different levels?
7. (20:49) When is the recommended day off for a Beginner Novice horse during the week?
8. (22:53) How many training days per week are sufficient to prepare a Beginner Novice horse for a competition?
9. (24:04) When is the right time to start riding a horse twice a day?
10. (26:30) Can you provide guidance on reteaching the gallop, particularly for OTTBs?
11. (34:41) How do you incorporate swimming into your horses' conditioning schedules?
12. (39:29) What is your approach to training a young Thoroughbred versus a young Warmblood?
13. (41:25) What factors should be considered when bringing back a horse who has been a pasture puff to Beginner Novice level?
14. (44:16) How do you determine the appropriate duration to be cantering during a schooling exercise?
15. (48:08) What steps do you take to reflect and help your horse recover after a day of conditioning?
16. (51:45) Do you give your horses a break during the summer?
17. (54:08) What conditioning options are available if access to a hill is not possible?
18. (55:27) How do you assess whether a horse is in the proper shape to compete at their designated level?

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Where to find Jon Holling

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathanholling/?hl=en 

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Hollingeventing/ 

• USA Eventing Profile: https://useventing.com/news-media/news/rider-profile-jonathan-holling 

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• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/Ride iQofficial/ 

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Ride iQofficial 

• Website: https://www.ride-iq.com/

• Lessons with Jon on the Ride iQ app: http://onelink.to/8mhb95 

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Sample Training Schedule as Discussed in the Episode

Monday

• Hack 

Tuesday

• Flatwork (untimed; work until the horse has been worked appropriately)

Wednesday

• Trot set or flatwork

Thursday

• Trot set (e.g., 20 min walk, 15 min trot, 10 min walk to cool off)

Friday

• Jump

Saturday

• Variable depending on the week’s progress (e.g., cross-country school, fitness conditioning, trot set, flatwork, canter set)

Sunday

• Day off

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Quotes

• “Don't underestimate how important walking is.”

• This will be very controversial – I've almost gone on cross country with the idea that I'm going to aggressively show jump around that cross country course. That's the balance we want.”

• “I have to be smart enough and selfless enough to say, ‘You're beautiful and I love you, but you're going to go do a different job. You're not going to be the horse I wanted you to be.’ You can't shove a square peg into a round hole.”

• “Approach that ride as if you’re doing physical therapy for that horse to make sure it’s working correctly and softly.”

• “[My horses] are all just on vacation right now. I'm a big advocate of that. I think as they get older, maybe they don't need to have quite as much time off and they should at least keep walking under saddle. That's a good thing to do for them.”

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Transcript / Summary

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Jessa Lux

Hello, everybody. Welcome to Office Hours. We are here with Jon Holling, beloved Ride iQ coach and five-star event rider. Today, we're talking about horse fitness. We've covered horse fitness before, but this time we want to cover more bases. Many people have reached out, asking for help with lower-level horse fitness or fitness tailored to the specific terrain they have available. So we're revisiting this topic, and there's still so much to discuss. First and foremost, Jon, thank you for joining us tonight.

Jon Holling

Thanks for having me. I've always loved doing this. It's a good time. The last couple of times I did it, I was actually shocked when it was done. It went by really fast, so I must have really enjoyed it.

Jessa Lux

That's a great sign. I just noticed you have a glass of wine. That makes me wish I had a glass of wine too. It always helps time pass and makes things more enjoyable. But I do have a cup of tea, which is also quite nice at the end of the day. I mentioned earlier that you're our beloved Ride iQ coach. I don't want to skip over that because I need to tell you something. Kinsey and I talk to Ride iQ members every week on the phone, and so many of them go out of their way to explicitly tell us how much they love having you as a coach and how much they enjoy your lessons. We've heard it so many times that it's become a running joke for us. But I wanted to share this with you because it makes a big difference for people.

Jon Holling

Well, that's really nice to hear. I appreciate it. Everyone I've paid to tell you guys that I'mdoing a great job. The checks will keep coming. But seriously, it's really nice to hear. So thank you very much.

Jessa Lux

Yeah, they mentioned that they really enjoy the humor you sprinkle in and they mentioned some of your lines. So that’s going really well. You're one of our, I think, very first Ride iQ coaches, if not the first. You and Leslie Law were kind of neck and neck as our first Ride iQ coaches before Ride iQ even had a name or anything behind it.

Jon Holling

Being mentioned in the same sentence as Leslie is pretty good. I'll take it.

Jessa Lux

All right, before we dive into today's topic, you just got back from Ireland. Kinsey told me that and you just told me that as well, so tell us about your trip to Ireland, what you were there for, and how it went.

Jon Holling

Yeah, so I needed to restock the barn with some young prospects. We went over to Ireland to shop around, and we got there on the Sunday after Ocala and arrived on Monday morning at 5:20am. It was me and Jen. She came along as my advisor. We also brought Caitlin along as the chief videographer, and she had some really good input on the horses. The three of us had a great trip. We traveled around the country, starting at Cooley and visiting various places, and finished up in Fernhill. We returned home on Friday morning. It was a really fun trip, looking at horses, and we also got to spend some time together exploring the towns. Jen had a funny incident where she thought she had a ruptured appendix, but it turned out she just ate dinner too quickly and had a stitch in her side. It was amusing, and thankfully she didn't need to have her appendix removed. She loves that I tell people that story.

Jessa Lux

That's an amazing story. I wouldn't have expected Jen to have her appendix burst. She's quite tough.

Jon Holling

She is. That's why I rushed to get the car to take her to the hospital. She never complains about anything. If it were me, I'd be the one going to the hospital. We're tough on each other in that way. There's not a lot of sympathy and coddling in our house. I remember one time when I was complaining about having a flutter in my heart, which turned out to be a-fib, she looked at me and said, "Well, you can go to the hospital," and she made me drive myself. Can you believe it?

Jessa Lux

I can believe it.

Jon Holling

I should have told her to take herself to the hospital, but I was a good sport and drove her.

Jessa Lux

When I was growing up, I used to have a bit about my appendix bursting, and I don't know why. If my stomach ever hurt even a little, I would go into a full tantrum thinking my appendix was bursting. But not like Jen. I know Jen was actually in pain. So did you find any horses you like that will be coming back to the States, or is that a secret?

Jon Holling

We did find several horses. We probably saw 25 to 30 horses on the trip, and I would have come home with about six or eight of them. We had two horses vetted, and the first one has passed the pre-purchase exam, while the second one is awaiting final confirmation. So we'll have two nice horses, a five-year-old mare named Esmerelda, who we've decided to call Zelda, and a beautiful French gelding who is four years old. I can't believe the mare is chestnut, but she's beautiful. I'm excited.

Jessa Lux

I'm so excited. Congratulations. Now, Kinsey, I'll hand it over to you so we can dive into the topics. I know we have a lot of questions from people hoping we'll cover them.

McKinsey Lux

Certainly. Let's start with a question we received ahead of time in the Facebook group. This is from Kim. She asks, "I have a question about fitness if he gets a chance to answer it. My older horse is 21 and will be competing in eventing this year. He has breathing allergies, so fitness is extra important. What is the best way to get him fit while putting as little added stress as possible on his legs? He's sound, happy, and acts like a four-year-old, and I want to be very careful to preserve that."

Jon Holling

The best thing I heard there is that she wants to make sure she does what's needed without going overboard. I think it's important to find the right balance. Sometimes, I wish they would call the fittest horse award the most appropriately fit horse award. You want your horse to be 100% fit and ready for the job, but you also don't want to put unnecessary stress on them. For an older beginner novice horse, I believe scheduling and consistency are key. My horses, at any level, typically work about six days a week. However, if I had an older beginner novice horse, I might consider five days a week. But I think six days is ideal. On the sixth day, I recommend going for a hack and focusing on walking. Walking is more important than people think. During your trot sets or any other exercises, it's crucial to work with a purpose. The horse should be on contact, working correctly, and building their top line to ensure they have the right muscles to prevent injuries. Good footing is important, especially for older horses. Additionally, proper shoeing and veterinary care are essential for the horse's overall well-being and ability to handle the work. Here's a sample schedule: Sunday is a day off. On Monday, go for a hack. Tuesday is for flatwork, and the duration should be based on the horse's needs rather than a specific time limit. Wednesday can be another flat day or trot day. On Thursday, do a trot set. For an older beginner novice horse, a trot set of 15 to 20 minutes within a 45-minute ride should be sufficient. Start with a 20-minute walk, followed by the trot set, and end with a 10-minute walk to cool off. Adjust the timing as needed. Incorporate jumping on Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, but avoid jumping after a day off and try not to jump two days in a row unless it's during a competition. Saturday, the day before the day off, can be a cross-country school or additional fitness work, depending on the week's progress. For beginner novice horses, extensive galloping may not be necessary, but a fun canter set can be beneficial for mental well-being. That's how I would approach it for that type of horse.

Jessa Lux

Okay, we have some follow-up questions. First, how do you determine the appropriate duration for a trot set?

Jon Holling

It depends on various factors such as the horse’s level, terrain, and the specific horse. I can share what I typically do with my horses. For a training level horse, a 20-minute trot set is usually sufficient. I feel that 15 minutes is not enough. The horse can do about 20 minutes of quality work in a 45-minute ride. Adjust the timing accordingly for different levels. For example, a novice horse might also do 20 minutes, while a preliminary horse may do 25 to 30 minutes. An intermediate horse could trot for around 30 minutes, and an advanced horse might trot for 30 to 35 minutes. However, it's important to consider the weather conditions as well. In hot weather, I try to do the fitness work earlier in the day and shorten the trot set if needed. After the fitness work, especially in hot weather, I recommend getting the horse back to the barn and cooling them down quickly with ice and water to reduce their core temperature. Then, continue with hand-walking to help them recover, similar to what we do at competitions after cross-country. And if anyone feels that I'm speaking too fast, please let the girls know, and I'll slow down.

McKinsey Lux

Yeah, that's actually a really good point. As I get older, I've realized how different the show environment is compared to the training environment. Professionals like you are more aware of this and create that environment at home.

Jon Holling

It took me a while to figure that out too. I remember hacking around a few years ago, and my horse was still blowing after 15 minutes of walking. It took me a moment to realize that it was because of the high temperature. In an event, I would have been off the horse by then, but here I was walking for an extended period. It was a bit embarrassing that it took me a few seasons to realize that.

McKinsey Lux

I can relate to that. It's something I never thought about before, but it makes sense. Now, going back to what you said earlier about the frame during trot sets, can you explain that a bit more? It's something I haven't heard much about.

Jon Holling

It depends on the horse. When I start with a calm and quiet horse that walks quietly, I let them walk on a longer rein to relax and be comfortable. But soon, I take up contact in the walk so that their head is down and their back is rounded up, not rounded down or overly curved. When I trot, I aim for what I call their competition frame. They should be up and out and through. However, this varies with different horses. For example, Kurt is a bit wild and easily gets upset, so I work him a bit deeper and rounder to help him relax and build his top line. I might work him in a more rounded and downward frame. But doing any one frame for 20 minutes isn't productive. After some initial work in a rounder frame, I might pick them up a bit once they are settled and working well. With a horse like Prophet, who tends to travel with his haunches to the left, I focus on exercises like shoulder-in and haunches-in to work on straightness and balance. It's essential to think of your work as physiotherapy for your horse, addressing any crookedness or unevenness in their movement. Simply trotting around on a long rein won't build the right muscles or help prevent injuries. I hope I'm not talking too fast; it feels like I'm flying!

Jessa Lux

No, I think you're doing great. I'm following along, and I hope everyone else is too.

Jon Holling

If anyone feels that way, please let the girls know, and I'll adjust my pace.

Jessa Lux

Let us know in the comments. Reagan asked if we could put the schedule you mentioned on the app, and we will do that. We'll include it in the episode description of this episode, so you can refer to it without having to listen again. Now, Jon, at what point do you start incorporating canter or gallop work with horses? At what level does that become a part of their conditioning routine?

Jon Holling

That's a good question. Typically, I start including some canter sets when the horses are at the training level. However, I also wouldn't want to take a novice horse to an event without having done any canter sets. So with younger and greener horses, I may experiment a bit. But to be honest, if I have a novice horse preparing for an event, I try to combine the canter set with a cross-country school. I'm fortunate to have access to great cross-country fences, so I take advantage of that and incorporate the fitness canter into the cross-country schooling session. This way, the horse gets the required conditioning while also working on their cross-country skills..

McKinsey Lux

Yeah, that’s very reasonable, and it also helps you keep in mind that even at beginner novice, you're still on course cantering for five to six minutes. So practicing that isn't the worst idea because you don't want the first time you've ever cantered in a field for that long to be at a competition.

Jon Holling

Absolutely. And you know, the thing is, people say, "Well, my novice horse doesn't gallop; he's strong and falls on its head," and you're like, "Well, maybe we need to go practice it then" or something. Some of those young horses come out at the gallop great, and you're like, "Yeah, I got this, no problem," and you don't need to go do three five-minute canters on a novice horse, but maybe you want to do two three-minute canters. Or if you have access to a hill, go up the hill a few times and just get them starting to learn how to gallop. I'll tell you what, this is especially important for Thoroughbreds that come off the racetrack because they gallop fast and they gallop low, and they run flat fast. That's not ideal to be able to gallop to a jump, and so you have to sort of reteach them how to gallop.

Jessa Lux

Totally. I think that's great advice. So this next question is, when you have to give your beginner novice horse a day off, would you rather do a day off midweek or Monday after showing or Friday before a Saturday, Sunday show?

Jon Holling

Great question. So I'll start at the end and work my way back; if I forget where I'm going, you'll have to remind me. So I never give my horses a day off before competition. I know some people do that. I honestly think that probably people who are themselves too stressed to deal with the fact that they're going to a competition, so they're like, "I can't deal with one thing so the horse needs a day off." Well, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but my horses always go the worst after a day off. Now that said, I don't think you need to drill on them the day before a competition. You want them to feel great the next day, not sore. So that's a day where I will usually just make sure everything's where it needs to be. If they go great, they might be done working in 20 minutes. If they're a little bit wild, they might be done in 40 minutes. But they won't get the day off before the competition. Now, don't everybody get upset that I said that means you're too stressed to deal with the competition, that's just me being a jerk. My day off typically would be the day after a competition. That said, I also know the people who say the day after the competition, they're going to be a little bit stiff and sore and tight so they should go out walking and go for a hack. I would say that's not such a bad idea either. But if you have good turnout, I think you could put them out and they can walk around and recover. So I'd like them to have the day after competition or the day after a gallop off if I can. That said, as you go up the levels like with a lower-level horse that's galloping, I'll probably do once a week gallops, but as I start to get ready for long competitions, mine will gallop every four to five days, then it gets a little tricky. You just have to get the day off where you can be honest.

Jessa Lux

We were getting a couple of questions about more about the OTTBs, and we'll get to those, but since we're on the day-off question, for people who aren't able to get to the barn six days a week, let's say they're riding beginner novice or novice, how many days a week is sufficient if they're preparing for a competition, like if they're riding four days a week and working in that trot set, would you consider that sufficient?

Jon Holling

I mean, you could do it. I think it's tough on four days a week. It's not impossible, for sure you can do it. But I do think it's difficult because you have to have one day for a trot set, you have to have one day for a jump. That means you have two days left to basically do dressage. Well, do you get that hack day where you can just let them hack around? Like I think five, to me, would be in a perfect world, ideal. That said, we don't live in a perfect world, and if four days is what you've got, and you give it your all, I say go for it. You know, you're talking about beginner novice, maybe even novice at that point. Like that's for a real competition, but it's also at a height that's safe enough that I think you could get your horse fit and be safe doing it. I just don't know if you'd be getting the performance that you want out of it.

Jessa Lux

Yeah, I think that's fair. And not to belabor this point at all, but what is the right time to be riding a horse twice a day? And do you ever utilize that for really anything?

Jon Holling

Yeah, it depends on the horse and the fitness level that you need. We do that with the horses, sort of, for me, I'd say two or three-star level. With that said, it also depends on the horse. Like again, thinking of the horses I have, I have Prophet. He's difficult, like I love him to death, but he is a tricky little bugger, and I can't put just anybody on him to go for a walk. He's also a pretty naturally fit horse. So he'll go for his walks, but instead of going out for an hour in the morning and then working in the afternoon, I'll usually send him out for about 40 minutes or so in the morning with Kelly, who works here, to ride him before I work him. So he'll go out, hack around the farm for a good long walk for 30 or 45 minutes, and then I'll get on him and school him and work him. So it's kind of all in one session. The other reason that I do that with some of the horses is here on the farm is, we've got myself with eight stalls and Zach Brandt with 10 stalls renting next to me. And so turnout time can sometimes be a little tricky. And so I have to decide, "Okay, do I go send the horse out for a walk this morning and work this afternoon and it misses turnout, or do I try to just compress it a little bit with some of them?" So sometimes I'll do that. The thing is you have to be a little flexible and thinking about your particular horse. I can't give you guys sort of prescriptions for what most horses should do. So, to me, three-star level and up, those horses should be walking in the mornings, probably four or five days a week and working in the afternoon six days a week, or Prophet works six days a week, but four of those riding for a walk in the morning. But it's not gonna be realistic for everybody, and it's not something that has to happen.

Jessa Lux

One thing that I love about office hours and just like the Ride iQ lessons in general is even if they're not exactly prescriptive to your situation, you're helping us think through our situation more like a coach would, which I know is helpful for me at least. So let's get back to the OTTB questions. One just says, "Can you talk more about reteaching the gallop?" And then Amber asks, "What are tips to get those Thoroughbreds who are naturally quick and low to have a better gallop? I specifically struggle with this where I feel like I'm having to get into my Thoroughbred before a jump to have a canter to jump out of and transitioning to and from that quality cross-country canter and gallop on course." Sorry. Does that make sense?

Jon Holling

So the basic thing that happens with Thoroughbreds that have come off the racetrack is they've been taught to grab the bit, lower and drop their wither, and gallop flat and fast. And obviously, that's not how you want to be coming into a fence, with your horse's withers low and running at the jump. And so realistically, what you have to do is try to take a little bit of what your dressage canter would be and incorporate that into your gallop. So I don't want everybody to think that I'm saying you need to go out and get a giant bridle and bits and all kinds of craziness. You need to make sure you have something in your horse's mouth that it's going to respect and that you can ride softly in, and hopefully, that's a snaffle. But I also think you have to be realistic about what your horse needs and talk to somebody who sees your horse and knows a little bit about bridles and bits and things, because what you want is that when you put your leg on and you push your horse into the bridle, its wither comes up and its haunches come down. We all know that. Well, it doesn't matter if your horse is running through your hand, you can't make that happen. So I think what I tell my students when we're going out with younger horses on cross country is, this maybe goes to the part about how she was saying that she feels like she has to sit down too much and show jump too much to the cross-country fences. I think the last thing that you add to cross country is speed. Right? That's the very last piece. So when I go out and jump a young horse around cross country, I usually force myself to sit down into the saddle, 10-12 strides away from the fence, and really keep them between hand and leg. And I'll be honest, I didn't always do that, but I do it now because one, I'm trying to produce these horses to have the records either to be a horse for myself or a student or to be sold, and it doesn't do me any good if they have silly 20s on the record because I just didn't have them really connected. But the other thing it does is, it gets them in the right balance to have good jumps so they gain confidence. So I want to finish a cross country horse, on a novice horse or maybe even a training horse, feeling like, "Yeah, I probably over prepared by about four or five strides to every fence out there." And then the next time I go out on that horse, I might feel like, "Okay, I've probably over prepared to every fence out there for about six to eight strides out there" so that I can ride it a little softer, a little better every time I go, but I'm gonna be almost -- this will be very controversial -- I've almost gone on cross country with the idea that I'm going to aggressively show jump around that cross country course. That's the balance we want. We want them on their hind end, we want them jumping those jumps like they're show jumping. That's the shape we want. Once we get the horses to understand that that's how they're going to gallop, whether we're doing it at home. And I wouldn't say I sit on my horses when I gallop at home. Gallop up in your two-point, got to be up in front of you, but they're going to gallop slower. They're not galloping at that point, right? You're talking about a novice horse, you're not galloping so much for fitness as we are galloping to teach them the balance that they want, so I'm not going to be speeding around in the gallop. I'm cantering, and then as I get the balance, I might add a little speed as I feel like the horse sort of has that feel, but they're going to be cantering around. I don't know if that answers the question or not.

Jessa Lux

Yeah, no, I think that definitely answers the question. One point of clarification that I'm just wondering is when you're saying you're cantering around with them, are you still in gallop position or are you sitting in the saddle?

Jon Holling

I'm in gallop position, so up out of the saddle in two-point, tall. And there might be times if I'm on one that's just running through me where I might get down in the saddle a little bit to push them through. I'm a big advocate of riding in a bridge on a horse that's getting strong so I don't have to sit down into it, because I find that if you have one that's running off and you sit down, they tend to run faster. And if you can settle into your bridge, that can help. But no, I think when you're galloping, you should be up in your two-point virtually the whole time.

McKinsey Lux

Yeah. And if you were to get a horse in your barn, probably not a horse that you would seek out, like probably not a horse you bought, but maybe a horse comes into your barn for training and it comes in and is just not a strong galloper, is that the first thing you do is just go out there and have it doing a quality canter, and then you can build strength? Is that kind of the progression?

Jon Holling

It depends a little bit on why or how it's not a strong galloper. Like if it just gets tired quickly from galloping, then yeah, I'd probably go out and gallop that horse, canter that horse, depending on the level, a little bit more. To be honest, I'd also probably question what level the horse wants to event to. If it really didn't gallop well naturally, then I might think, "Okay, is this a prospect for me or is this somebody's training level horse or somebody's preliminary horse or somebody who's being a novice horse, or is this a show jumper or a dressage horse?" I think if there's one thing that's been proven throughout the years, and I would say is more true now than ever, is cross country is the most important piece of our sport. It's the part that's the most fun. And I would much rather be taking a horse that's great on cross country and struggles in dressage to an event of any level than take one that's great in dressage and I have to make gallop and go on the cross country because honestly, it's no fun.

Jessa Lux

It's really interesting you mentioned that. That's come up in a number of conversations, whether it's like Sinead's In Stride podcast or office hours, but I haven't heard it a lot before, and it's like, find the job the horse wants to do and that they're good at. And sometimes you can't, you know, you have to work with the horse you have. But it's nice to think of it in that way and not just be like, "This is my event horse, and he's going to event whether he likes it or not."

Jon Holling

Right, and it's really hard because like as an example, I've just bought these two horses. I'm assuming everybody watching this has a horse or access to horses. So you guys know when you get any horse, we have a new one coming, you have all hope. Like, "I can see medals draped around my neck from these horses," right? Like, "It's going to finally all come together." But you might get over here and decide she wants to be a show jumper, and I have to be smart enough and selfless enough, if that's the case, to say, “You're beautiful and I love you, but you're gonna go do a different job. You're not gonna be the event horse I wanted you to be.” You can't shove a square peg into a round hole. And you get these horses and you have these hopes and dreams, and sometimes they stay wonderful horses but maybe not wonderful horses for the job that you thought they were going to be. And so you have to – I think that's at least part of our job as trainers in any equestrian sport – is making sure that the horses and the riders go into the right places.

Jessa Lux

Totally. I'm glad my microphone was on mute because I snorted when you said you can see the medal. I mean, I can see them too. But I had to admit that to everyone. All right. We have, first of all, people who ask about OTTBs, so that was very helpful. And then we had another question come in, and they said, "How do you feel about swimming a horse that is doing modified, especially a horse that is a little bit of a heavier Irish sport horse but no Thoroughbred blood, and it's so hot with hard ground in the summer?"

Jon Holling

You need to be careful not to go too fast when bringing a horse back into work after a period of inactivity because it can make them back sore. However, I do believe in swimming horses. I had a horse named Downtown Harrison who had a successful career thanks to swimming. He couldn't gallop anymore because it would cause him to break, so swimming helped keep him sound. I've also had other horses, including a full Thoroughbred, that I swam to improve their fitness. So there's no problem with swimming a modified horse. AquaTread is another option, and any available water-based exercises can be beneficial. However, it's important to have someone experienced and knowledgeable to ensure the horse is swimming properly and safely. I had a scary experience once where a horse almost drowned while I was swimming it by myself, so I learned the importance of having good people around. Swimming and water-based exercises can be great, but always prioritize safety and proper technique.

McKinsey Lux

That's a really scary story. Reagan is asking how often you swim a horse.

Jon Holling

It depends on the level of competition. When Downtown Harrison was competing, he would swim every three to four days because that's what he needed to stay fit. For other horses, swimming is incorporated as an addition to their regular training routine. For example, they might do AquaTread twice a week and swim once a week. The frequency can vary depending on the horse's individual needs. I know it's not a definitive answer, but it really depends. I would say at least once a week, probably twice a week.

Jessa Lux

How does AquaTread differ from straight swimming?

Jon Holling

AquaTread is more like trot sets and helps build the horse's top line. With Downtown Harrison, he would do AquaTread twice a week and swim every four days. He did a lot of AquaTread because it replaced all the trotting, while swimming replaced the galloping. Swimming provides the horse with lung capacity and anaerobic workout, while AquaTread focuses on building top line and overall fitness through aerobic exercise.

McKinsey Lux

Yeah, I've been thinking about how after a hard workout, I can barely walk the next day. And then I think about horses, and I'm like, "I never really gave my horse the chance to feel bad after a hard day's work." Whereas I always feel bad after hard workouts. So it's interesting, and I think it's great that there's more focus now on providing horses with chiropractic treatments, massages, and other forms of care. I'm sure they appreciate it.

Jon Holling

Absolutely. We have great physiotherapists and chiropractors who work on our horses. Another thing I do is give my horses two days off after a good weekend of hard work and jumping, even if they didn't jump perfectly. They deserve a break after a long season. It's amazing how they come out better on Wednesday than they would have on Tuesday. They're happier and perform better when they've had adequate rest.

McKinsey Lux

Yeah, I love that approach. We have a question from Amanda in the chat. She's curious about how you approach the difference between conditioning a young Thoroughbred versus a young Warmblood after several weeks of long walk work. She wants to know if there's a difference in how you bring them back into fitness.

Jon Holling

It's interesting because Warmblood breeders have done a great job of breeding purpose-bred sport horses with a lot of Thoroughbred blood, so they can be very Thoroughbred-like in their way of going. For example, I have a Warmblood named Kurt who rides like a Thoroughbred even though he's a Zangersheide. With young Thoroughbreds, it's about teaching them how to gallop up, while with Warmbloods, it's about teaching them how to gallop forward without getting strong and pulling you over their head. However, it's a bit of a generic answer because it really depends on the individual horse. For instance, I have a Trakehner named Prophet who is the hottest, fastest, and speediest horse I've ever ridden. He doesn't need to learn how to go faster; it's like riding a ninja.

Jessa Lux

That's amazing. I once had a Trakehner who liked to take off with me. I was about 12 years old at the time, so I was really along for the ride. We have a question from the chat that relates to our earlier discussion about fitness for a Beginner Novice level horse. The question is about bringing a 10-year-old Quarter Horse back into shape after one to two years of pasture life for a potential Beginner Novice event in the fall. The rider is able to ride early in the mornings before work to avoid the heat and can do shorter rides or hacking and trot sets with a bit of canter four times a week. They are asking for a general rule of thumb for bringing this horse back and any tips on what not to do. They would appreciate your advice.

Jon Holling

It's realistic to get the horse ready for Beginner Novice in the fall, but since the horse has been out in the field doing nothing for a year or two, it's a big task to get it ready by this autumn. Considering it's already June, it's important to start with purposeful walking. Incorporate exercises like leg yield and shoulder-in to make the walk round and connected for a couple of weeks. After that, you can begin adding in a little bit of trot work and trot sets. In the third week, you could do 10-minute trots, and then progress to 15-minute trots for a Beginner Novice horse. After a month of hacking and trotting, you can start doing some flatwork for a week or two before introducing jumping. So, you're looking at about a month to six weeks of hacking, trotting, and flatwork before starting to jump. That would be my advice. It may sound lengthy, but I believe it's fair.

McKinsey Lux

Yeah, that sounds reasonable. This question is from Christina, by the way. She says, "You're adorable. God donkey says hi." I'm assuming you know what that means?

Jon Holling

Oh, I do.

McKinsey Lux

This has been so helpful. Amanda has another question in the chat. She said, "I'm curious about how you determine the length of time for cantering. If you're going Training or Modified or any level above that, should you start with three sets of five or three sets of six? Is that where you should start, or how do you determine that as a coach?"

Jon Holling

Okay, so again, it depends on the horse you're sitting on. It also depends on the available terrain. If you don't have a hill, you'll have to adjust your sets accordingly. For example, on my farm, we don't have much of a hill, so I'll do sets on the flat. I used to do 20-minute canters, but in the hot weather down here, I've shortened it to 15 minutes. At Training level, I'll do a 4-minute canter with a 3 to 4-minute break and walk, then a 3-minute canter with a similar break, followed by another 4-minute canter. If the horse is going Preliminary, I start with 4-minute canters. Once they're ready for a CCI**-long format or getting ready for it, I have access to a property with a hill down the road. I'll use that hill for my sets. It's not a massive slope, but it takes about three-and-a-half minutes to get from the bottom to the top. I go up twice for three-and-a-half to four minutes to start. If they’re doing Three-Star, I’ll usually go up three times. For Four-Star, I go up four times, and for Five-Star, I'd go up about five times. I do these sets with four to five-day intervals between them. The advantage of using my hill is that it allows my horses to do less galloping on the flat, which causes less pounding on their legs.

Jessa Lux

That was beautifully done, really well explained. When people inquire about conditioning at the lower levels, it's partly to ensure they're doing the right thing and partly to familiarize themselves with the routine and learn about it before moving up to training or prelim levels. It's crucial to have a good understanding of what they're doing. Can we discuss the post-conditioning process and steps to help the horse recover? Let's approach it from the perspective of someone who is learning how to do it correctly. What should they be doing if their horses have just completed trot sets or even a canter set for their conditioning day?

Jon Holling

Absolutely. When I take a novice or training level horse out for a trot set, one thing I do the next day is evaluate how they feel and what impact the trot set had on them. Some horses come out the next day feeling much better because they were out of the ring and feel fresh and happy. However, some horses may feel stiff or wooden. In those cases, I reflect on how I could have improved the trot set. Could I have incorporated more shoulder-in, leg yield, or haunches-in? These exercises are not only for dressage tests but are valuable training exercises. So my novice horses do a bit of leg yield, haunches-in, and even some counter canter if they are capable. The goal is to keep their bodies soft and supple, considering the physio aspect. After reflecting on the trot set, I assess if the horse is a bit stiff from trotting. Do they need to work round and down? Are they tight in the shoulders or hind end? In my ring, I even ride around with my eyes closed to feel what the horse is doing underneath me instead of relying solely on visual cues. This helps me connect with them and better understand their movements. So, even if you're doing dressage the next day, approach the ride as a form of physical therapy for the horse, ensuring correct and soft work. That's what I do after a trot set. As for a gallop, typically for a novice or training level horse, I give them the day off the day after the gallop. Then I have a day off from galloping as well, and then I resume riding. The key at this point is to be patient, whether it's a young horse or an older horse competing at the novice or beginner novice level. After a gallop and a day off in the field, they come out feeling like we all do on Monday mornings going back to work, thinking "Well, here we go again." So, if I can teach one lesson today, it's to avoid immediately grabbing the reins and pulling their heads down, forcing them to go round. That's not an enjoyable experience. It's like walking into the office, and your boss immediately hands you a stack of work and says, "Welcome back to work, get to it. You don't have time for coffee. I don't care." Instead, let them hang around and relax. On their first day back, maybe do 20 minutes of walking and incorporate some gentle bending and stretching exercises. In the Ride iQ program, I've focused on the day after a day off, emphasizing stretchy exercises and making it enjoyable for the horses so that they look forward to it.

McKinsey Lux

You mentioned the heat in Florida and how it affects conditioning your horses. Do you give them downtime during the summer, meaning they're not kept in their peak competition shape? Or do you try to maintain their fitness throughout the summer and into the fall season?

Jon Holling

Yes, actually, all my horses except for one are currently on vacation. They participated in the Ocala event, which was the last run of the year. None of them had long formats this spring, so they're taking two to three weeks off. I also keep an eye on them during this time. For example, one horse was doing some light work, trotting out in the field. I almost put him back to work, just doing some walking in the tack, but then he took a breath and improved, so I let him continue enjoying his vacation. They're all on a break right now, and I strongly advocate for that. As the horses get older, they may not require as much time off, but I believe it's essential to keep them walking under saddle. It helps maintain their top line and overall fitness. However, in this country, the eventing season now runs for 12 months a year, and it's easy to keep going, especially with young horses that don't have long formats. But it's not about the number of runs in a season. Even if you only did six events in a year, if you've been working for 12 months, the horses still need time to recover. So, I make sure to give them a short holiday at this time of year. After their autumn season, usually around October or November, they get another break. I'll be honest, my horses don't compete much in January, even though it's a big season in Ocala. I feel it's too early for most of them to be out eventing again. They need that break. I know it can be tough because of peer pressure and the desire to keep up with fellow professionals who are eventing in January. But trust me, your horses' bodies need time to recover and regain their strength.

Jessa Lux

That's great advice. Regan asked what you do if you don't have a hill? Do you ever use something like an equiband or have other exercises to help with conditioning if a hill is not available?

Jon Holling

No, I don't use many gadgets, not because I'm against them, but because I'm not familiar with most of them. If you don't have a hill, the key is to work them on the flat where they're going to be more through. The hill shortens the amount of time needed for galloping and trotting, so without a hill, you'll have to do longer sets. Adjust the duration based on the level you're training for. Make sure you have good footing and focus on building lung capacity and fitness through longer sets.

McKinsey Lux

Absolutely. So before you move a horse up to a new level or take them to their first event, how do you determine if they are in proper shape for that level? Is it based on how quickly their heart rate comes down after a conditioning set? What makes you feel good about taking them out on cross country?

Jon Holling

Heart rate monitors can be really helpful in determining a horse's fitness level. You want to figure out their anaerobic and aerobic thresholds. I find it super helpful to check their heart rate after a conditioning set and see how quickly they recover. If they can't get their heart rate below the anaerobic threshold in four minutes, then I stop and reassess. Another method is to count their respiratory rate. After a set, when they're standing still, you can count their breaths for 15 seconds and multiply that by four to get a rough estimate. The goal is to have their respiration get up to around 80 breaths per minute during exercise and then come back down to below 20 before starting the next set. These methods help me determine their fitness and recovery rate. Additionally, I rely on my feel and how they're feeling underneath me. It's a combination of data and intuition.

Jessa Lux

Well, that couldn't have been a more perfect answer. I was concerned we wouldn't get to a question about heart rate monitors, so two birds with one stone right at the end there. Thank you, Jon, for joining us. It was amazing and informative, and thank you to everyone who attended and asked great questions. We appreciate all of you. Have a great rest of your evening, and thanks for being Ride iQ members. Have a good rest of the week, everyone.

Jon Holling

I love being able to talk and see myself on the screen. It's perfect.

Jessa Lux

Well, we always love the opportunity to chat with you too. The hour flies by for us as well. Thank you, everyone. Have a great rest of your evening. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for being Ride iQ members, and have a good rest of the week. Thanks, guys.